What happens when one partner decides sex is no longer part of the relationship, but the other still deeply values sexual intimacy? In this candid conversation on Second Act TV, Silke talks with ageless sexuality expert Joan Price about a difficult issue facing many long-term couples later in life: mismatched sexual desire. They explore the emotional impact of no longer feeling wanted, the difference between spontaneous and responsive desire as we age, bodily autonomy, alternatives to traditional intercourse, and the honest conversations couples may need to have when their needs no longer align. Rather than offering a single answer, Joan emphasizes communication, mutual respect, and finding solutions that acknowledge the needs and boundaries of both partners.
Silke Schwarzkopf is the creator, executive producer, and host of 2nd Act TV, one of YouTube’s leading channels for candid conversations about dating, relationships, intimacy, and life after 50.Her journey to this work wasn’t planned—it was personal. Shortly after turning 50, Silke made the difficult decision to leave her 25-year marriage, close the production company she had co-owned for nearly two decades, and return to her Southern California roots to start over. Like millions of people navigating divorce, dating, and reinvention later in life, she found herself searching for guidance, encouragement, and authentic conversations that simply didn’t exist.Drawing on her background in public relations and television production—and her own experiences of rebuilding happiness, finding love again, and creating a new career—Silke launched 2nd Act TV to help others navigate the challenges and opportunities of midlife.
Click to see Full Transcript
This is one of the most common questions I get. My wife and I used to have a wonderful sex life and now my wife says she’s done with sex and this is killing me. What do I do? Thank you so much for joining us today on Second Act TV. Today I am so happy to welcome back Joan Price, just globally known as the ageless sexuality expert, an awardwinning writer, and the author of five books, including the two sitting right there behind me, Make It at RH, Talking Out Loud About Senior Sex, and then of course, Sex After Grief, which is such such an important book, especially for our demographic. Joan, I’m so happy to have you here again. Thanks for being here. Oh, well, thank you. I love being with you. I love talking with you and I can’t wait for another conversation. Well, today’s conversation I I don’t think people find very often. And that is what happens when she doesn’t want to have sex anymore. As as I’m sure everybody watching knows and many of our men have brought this to our attention, my wife doesn’t want to have sex anymore. I don’t know what to do and I don’t have a good answer for them. Of course, when I got these comments and I got one in particular that was, you know, a lot of times you got the rude comments and all women blah blah blah. He really laid it out what the what the issues are, but you can tell he was really really hurt and of course I immediately immediately thought of you to discuss that. And what I want to do different today than I think how these conversations are usually handled is to really think about the man’s point of view in this, not what men need to understand about menopause. That’s all over. That’s all over. Not that they don’t need to. I mean, that’s important, too. But it seems like the man’s point of view never really gets put out front. So, what I I know you hear about this. What What comes to mind when you hear this? Well, I’ve been hearing about this is not a new issue for me. You know, I write a a column, a sex advice column on seniorplanet.org. This is one of the most common questions I get. My wife and I used to have a wonderful sex life or we never had a wonderful sex life. Can be either one. And now my wife says she’s done with sex. She doesn’t want anymore. I promised fidelity and this is killing me. What do I do? You know, you say you don’t have a good answer. Well, it’s because every relationship is different. We have to delve into what’s behind it. Why doesn’t she want sex anymore? One of the things that I hear that’s written online, you know, in the in the forums is one of the number one things that men feel like that that it’s off limits to even talk about it. And I’m speaking for men and I don’t mean to. We our our audience is a 50% male audience and I’m responding to a male comment. So, I just want to preface it when I ask questions about men or assumptions about men, the assumption [laughter] that I’m going to ask you about now that it’s not even so much that they that that sex, the act itself, but that they don’t feel desired. They miss feeling desired. They miss feeling desire. They miss feeling wanted. They miss the sex. I mean, yes, they miss the sex. They miss the intimacy associated with it. They miss having a partner respond to their touch or their kisses and not uh suddenly go, “No, don’t kiss me. It’ll lead to sex.” And they miss what they had. You know, they wait a minute. We base so much of our relationship on being on having sex being a part of it. It’s not that they want sex with anyone. They want sex with their wives. if they can’t have sex with their wives. And I want to be sure we talk about this in a respectful way. If a man promises fidelity, it does not mean that he’s promising celibacy. And I think that’s something that the person who does not want to have sex needs to understand. And I, you know, I get I get a lot of people. I love that. No, I love that. Joan, you went right to where I think we need to go with this conversation. Yeah. I always suggest when a man comes to me with this problem or submits it to my column that they talk about it. Yes. First, is it that you don’t want sex or you don’t want the sex we’ve been having? because maybe it’s not she doesn’t want any kind of sex, but she doesn’t want what’s been happening. And that’s a big conversation. Or if she says, “I just don’t want sex anymore. I’m done. That part of our lives is over. Let’s just let’s just have a companion relationship.” A companion relationship meaning there’s love. There’s affection. You’re my best friend. You’re the person I want to be with forever. But we sex isn’t a part of it. But that has to be agreed by both people. Marriage doesn’t exist unilaterally because one person doesn’t want sex. So if one person wants that, the other one doesn’t. What do we do now? Let’s say the woman says, “I don’t want to change. Don’t try to get me to change. I don’t need counseling. I’m happy with not having sex.” So yeah, she says, “I don’t want to fix it. It’s not broken. It’s who I am now.” Well, then there needs to be a discussion. Okay, says the man. But I am not done with sex. It would kill me to know that I have to spend the next 10, 20 years, whatever we have sexless because you don’t want sex anymore. So, can you give me a hall pass for going outside the marriage discreetly and we could figure out what that’s going to look like? I wanted us to figure that out together. And I know there’s people out there right now going, “Oh, no. Marriage means forever. How can you even bring this up?” And and I I mean, I believe that, too, but I also believe that we should have sex going forward. This is so common, but it is not brought up and nobody comes forward like Joan just did and and just admits that that it’s that this is celibacy is not fidelity. I mean, I I just love the way you said that. I’m Go ahead. Continue, please. [laughter] Well, I hear from the men who are in this situation. I also hear from the women. And in fact, I just answered uh questions from two different readers to women who ha are being bullied by their husbands because they don’t want sex and their husbands insist. Well, that’s not anything you can do. We have bodily autonomy. So, I need the men to understand too, you cannot force your wife. You cannot, you must not bully, intimidate, threaten your wife. One of them, one of the women said, “My husband threatens divorce if we don’t have sex. Can he do that?” Well, I answered her, “Yes, of course he can. We can divorce for any reason. And if someone is feeling, I cannot be in a marriage that’s sexless, yes, he has the right or to to get a divorce.” Are there things though you can do that would avoid that? If you both want to stay in the marriage, maybe you don’t. Maybe you don’t. You don’t want the bullying anymore. He doesn’t want the lack of sex anymore. Maybe you need to part. So there’s so many options. I’m not saying you have to do it this way, you have to do it that way. I don’t know what would work. One thing at this point in the conversation that maybe would be good for men to understand I think is that women who lose their desire they’re upset about well not everybody I’m not speaking for every woman it’s like what you said there’s women that are just done but there’s also women who grieve this just as much and why don’t I want sex anymore what’s wrong with me I just you know they they’re at a loss too of how to handle this if you’re in that kind of a situation then there’s more hope for that marriage I would think and there are different solutions. So two things I want to offer for someone in that situation. If the woman says I wish I wanted sex I don’t but I wish I did. [snorts] So two things. One is a good sex therapist will help unravel the reasons that sex is not working for you anymore. What kind of sex would work for you? And then the other thing that’s so important, and I know we’ve talked about this, but we should talk about this every time, is the idea of responsive desire as opposed to spontaneous desire. Can we go into that now? Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. So, we’re used to desire being this biologically propelled spontaneous desire. I see you. I can’t wait. [laughter] Let’s rip off our clothes and lock the doors. But as we age and our hormones recede, we do not feel that. We don’t have that biological imperative. It doesn’t mean sex doesn’t work. It just means we don’t have spontaneous hormone-driven desire. But there is such a thing called responsive desire. And I have to credit Emily Nagosski for writing the book Come As You Are, which explains this so thoroughly. Wonderful, wonderful book. We all need to read that book. Yeah, I’ll link to it. And what she explains is that response of desire is what happens when you get started with physical response and pleasure, especially pleasure. If you start touching slowly or lying in bed naked, cuddling, laughing together, stroking, kissing, and as you do this, you might feel, you know what, this feels kind of good. Let’s see what happens if we do it a little more intimately. Response of desire is that desire will kick in once your body feels aroused and is having pleasurable sensation. Does that make sense? That makes perfect sense. And again, at this part of point of the conversation, you know, there are women thinking, well, it it hurts pain, you know, sex hurts. And we have tons of videos on that. There’s so many things you can do about that. You and I have talked about that. Dr. Simon and I have it. Just we have great great videos about sex and pain. So I want to really focus on this or stay on our topic which is about men. Yes. Understand it. Go ahead. Let me insert something there. Sex does not have to equal penetration. We can have orgasms without a fragile vagina being penetrated whatsoever. I mean I think a vibrator should be part of every sex act, but that’s just me. That’s just me. or maybe not, but let’s put it out there. And of course, use lube every time with with any kind of touching. And that can be very sexy, too. Using the full hand to apply the lube slowly apply. I mean, I’m getting excited thinking about [laughter] this. Better stop. You’re so funny. You crack me up. Let’s get back to what we were talking about just a little bit ago, which is the woman just says, “No, I’m done. I am done. We’re not having sex ever again.” And you’re saying that there are options there that need to be discussed. So, if we’re talking to men directly now, what do you advise this good man who who wants to have a sex life but doesn’t want to leave his wife, what does he do? I recommend that he have the conversation. I understand that you don’t want sex anymore. I get that. I accept that. Given that, I am not done with sex. I need the intimacy. I need the touch. I need the release. I don’t want to just do this masturbating on my own. Here are some things that I want to propose. What would work for you? Would you assist me with masturbation? In other words, would you hold me while I masturbate? Would you do that? She might answer yes and then okay, then you have a place to go. If she says I do not want do it behind closed doors, I don’t want anything to do with it. Okay. So, if I need the intimacy of sexual touch, then you do not want to provide it. Here are two options that I see for myself because I need this in my life to make me happy. This is not something I’m willing to do without. Do we separate or do I seek sex outside the marriage? And if so, let’s talk about the kind of rules and boundaries we want. If she says, “No, you may not touch any other woman.” Well, then he has to think, “Do I want to stay in this marriage?” I’ve had men get to this point in the conversation, and I’m thinking of one right now that I answered in a senior planet column. He said, “Don’t tell me to go outside the marriage because I don’t believe in that.” Then I had to just say, “All right, but you asked a sex advisor. You did not ask a spiritual advisor how to stay in this marriage. So I guess let’s talk about what you do in private. You have what Dan Savage calls the zone of erotic autonomy. I love that term. Zone of erotic autonomy. Meaning what goes on privately that does not involve any other person. What goes in on inside my head, what I do that does not involve anyone else, I get to do. And that will mean masturbation. That will mean whatever erotic stimulation I like for masturbation, such as watching porn, putting myself just for those moments in another world. I hate how often this happens. A woman will say, “No, you promise fidelity and you mustn’t watch porn because that makes me feel bad.” You know, at a certain point, the woman has to say, “I if I’m not willing, then I need to allow him to get what he needs in some way.” There’s one more option. It’s not one that anyone likes. But again, to quote Dan Savage, sometimes cheating is the least worst option for staying in the marriage and staying sane. So, what what kind of uh chance does a marriage like that have? Do you have any opinion on that? I have no idea. You know, people send me their problems and if they’re resolved, they don’t usually come back to me. Every once in a while they do and I’m so grateful. I do hear from people when it doesn’t get solved. And one of the things I see is so often people stay in unsatisfying, unhappy marriages and relationships because it’s so hard to get out of them. They don’t see they say well you know at my age can I really start over? I feel as I age, you know, I can’t tell you what to do. I don’t tell anyone what to do. I suggest things as I see them. You know, I think of the decisions I’ve made in my life where I took a different path. Every single time I look back, I would not be who I am now, where I am now, what I’m doing now, how my wonderful relationship is going now, if I hadn’t taken the chance of making a change. And being stuck, I think, is worse than taking a chance. Joan, again, you’ve given such incredibly important uh advice here that I’m so looking forward to the comments, both men and women, because this is an important conversation that I I’d like to continue at some point. So, I I thank you for your time today. I’m of course going to link to all of your information, to your books. I love those books. Pick those up. As well as I’ll link to our former conversations. Gosh, one of our videos has over 300,000 views. You’re a very popular guest on this. Which one of them? Which one? The one on the book, the naked at our age. It was just all the other ones are doing have tens of thousands too, but that one in particular. Before we sign off, anything else you want to leave with our audience? Yeah, there’s a movie being made about me, a documentary. A filmmaker approached me. She was inspired by my views on aging and the way I teach about sex. It’s called Ask Joan, the movie. Is it out now? No, because it’s very, very difficult for independent documentaries to get funding these days. It’s got all the footage. It’s almost done. It could be done. And they need a little more funding. And if any of the audience could go to the Ask Joan movie site, watch the trailer and you’ll see, yeah, I want to see this film. We need this film. And if people could just donate the price of a cup of coffee or whatever, then I’d be able to come on your podcast and say it’s ready. Oh, I love it. Well, I I’ll definitely put a link up to that. That sounds so incredibly interesting. Joan, again, thank you for your time. Thank you for what you do and I look so forward to having you back again soon on Second. I will be back here anytime you invite me. It’s wonderful talking to you and I love your audience. [music]