Helen Dennis on What Nobody Tells You About Retirement

speaker-0 (00:05.358)
Welcome back everybody. Today we have Helen Dennis with us. Helen is a very well-known columnist that’s in a number of different newspapers focusing on conversations around aging, retirement, that sort of thing. Helen, it’s always best to hear from the person that I’m talking to exactly who they are and what they do. So why don’t you introduce yourself?

speaker-1 (00:32.322)
All right, well, the name is clear. I’m Helen Dennis. I’m in Southern California. And I say I’m aging in the field of aging since I’ve been in the field for 50 years. I started obviously when I was a teenager. So how do I describe? Let me describe the work. My areas of specialty deal with issues of aging, employment and retirement, and successful aging.

Do you want to know what work I’m doing? So we’ll talk about the work that I’ve done. So I am a syndicated columnist on the topic of successful aging. It’s published by the Southern California News Group, which distributes its articles to about a dozen Southern California newspapers, as well as online. I’m fortunate.

to have this platform because it reaches 1.2 million readers every Sunday. So if your core is an educator, that is just a great platform. So that’s one piece. And I’ve published 1,182 columns because it’s weekly and I’ve been doing it for 23 years. And so you can say, who in their right mind does this every week? And the answer is we all.

are trying to make a difference somewhere in this world. And people seem to read it. So I feel it makes a difference. So I do that. I’ve also done extensive retirement education on non-economic issues. And again, have been fortunate to reach 25,000 employees, have worked a decade with PricewaterhouseCoopers team teaching with their financial folks.

I also have a background in academe. I made my career at the Andrus Gerontology Center, the Davis School of Gerontology at University of Southern California, where I taught and directed projects for about 20 years. So that was a gift because that was in the 70s when the field of aging was new. And I love to tell the story when people said, well, what do you do? said, well, I’m in the field of gerontology.

speaker-1 (02:56.066)
They said, well, that like a skin disease, you know, where you have these things on your face? said, no, no. I said, that’s dermatology. So it was when the field was very new, it was very exciting. And I guess as a commentary, the field today for me is exciting as it was 50 years ago, because so much is happening in so many arenas, whether it’s healthcare, housing, transportation, technology.

business, there isn’t a segment of our society that is not affected by this demographic change. So I’m digressing. So what else do I do? We can go on for there. But to finish the sentence, if you will, I’ve also done a fair amount of expert witness work on large age discrimination cases.

which has also been an education because if you’re an educator, you want to share what you know. It’s very different when you are in a deposition and it isn’t that you want to share everything you know, you want to be honest, but just answer the questions. So it was a very good, if you will, intellectual discipline. And I did this very selectively and I did it because I feel very strongly about ageism.

Ageism in the workplace, although illegal, it continues. So I feel very strongly about that. I also do a fair amount of public speaking, anywhere from 25 to maybe 3000 people, it depends. So I’ve been very fortunate, Neil, in to have an evolving, very exciting career. I’ve been president or chair of five nonprofits, believe strongly in the nonprofit world.

giving back as part of the career, as part of the internal motivation. And so that’s kind of the broad, oh, okay, and I’ve edited two books and the one book that I co-authored with my colleague, Bernice Bratter, is called Project Renewment, the first retirement model for career women. So,

speaker-1 (05:23.02)
That gives you a little bit. And I also should add, I backed into my career. The field of aging was not a strategic plan. I born and raised, went to school in the East Coast, moved to California, two young children. And I realized every, this was mid seventies, everyone was going to school for something. They were either tennis lessons, a degree, cooking,

They were all learning, at least that’s what I observed. So I went back to school and got a master’s and actually that’s how I ended up in aging because I was looking for a thesis for my graduate piece and I wandered into the library and I picked up a book by Warner Shye called Cognition in Aging and I thought, wow.

Isn’t that interesting? Never occurred to me. And this was a period of time when no one at this university had any background or expertise in aging. So that when I came up with a thesis topic, they said, you know, go to the University of Southern California. They have this gerontology center. Why don’t you talk to someone there to see if your topic has merit? Well, I thought that was a gift from God.

someone spent an hour with me and they said, yes, I think this says Murrah. And that’s how I started in aging because my topic was on something that’s not related to my work. It’s called re-improvision therapy. And it so happened at that time, the summer Institute, again, early aging days had a two week summer Institute course on a variety of topics, biology, aging, psychology of aging, politics of aging. And

They asked me if I would teach one day on the topic of working with adults and on my topic. And I thought, wow, that’s interesting. So I did it. And then there were two mental health grants that came up that no one had time for. And they said, gee, would you like to work two days a week? Again, gift from God. I said, I would love to. And that morphed into my career at

speaker-1 (07:47.102)
USC and my long-term career in the field. So if I observe myself, Neil, I think my comment is, that’s interesting. Because when I started the column, I was not looking for it. A colleague called me and said, the woman who is writing a column on seniors was retiring at the age of 88 to write a book. Was I interested? And I said, well,

That’s interesting. Once again. So I said, sure. So they invited me in. They, said, uh, give me a 600 word column and 12 topics that you think we should cover and we’ll talk again. I thought, you know, there are always hoops you go through and you think of achieve something, but more hoops to go through sat there, managing editor, features editor.

sitting there quietly saying, my God, do I even know what I’m doing? And they said, you know, we like this. Would you like to write a column on seniors? I said, you know, I qualify chronologically, but somehow that term doesn’t resonate me. How about something that is inspiring, as aspirational, such as successful aging? they said, yeah, we like that. And that was 23 years ago. So.

I guess my comment, Neil, is I’ve been fortunate to have these extraordinary opportunities. And if I look back at my comments, it’s always, well, yeah, that’s interesting. Sure. And all of them have aligned with things that I believe in. So it’s been, these have been gifts.

speaker-0 (09:29.774)
I’m not sure you’ve noticed, I’ve been writing everything you were saying was bringing up question after question after question. 23 years. How have things changed compared to 23 years ago to now?

speaker-1 (09:46.49)
One, people are more informed. People are looking for, they want to be heard. And I say, this keeps me honest. It keeps me on the ground because the column is a Q &A, but it’s not Dear Abby. The column, it’s public education, but the reader should never know it because the core of it is, what do we know about the topic? What does research tell us?

So your question again, and I’m digressing, how has changed? They’re more informed. They want reliable, valid information. They want to feel that there’s some hope. They want reality because the questions often are on issues. My father,

speaker-0 (10:18.798)
How’s it?

speaker-1 (10:44.238)
One the classic, my father is blind. My mother has dementia and she insists on driving. Do any suggestions on the conversation I could have? There are a of questions on ageism, age discrimination, on caregiving. And then there’s some things such as, know, I’m going to turn 65 and I just can’t get over it. I don’t, I’m just beside myself. So we talk about ageism and how we feel about aging.

So I cover everything but finances and medical issues. I can talk about how do you find a geriatrician, but don’t ask me about your arthritis because, or ask me about your stock portfolio. But broadly, broad topics.

speaker-0 (11:34.06)
You said something that made me puzzled. You said they’re looking for hope.

speaker-1 (11:41.962)
Yes, sometimes they can’t get the answers they’re looking for.

speaker-1 (11:54.678)
A caregiving one. My mother refuses to have anyone come into the house. And yet I know that she’s an accident waiting to happen. Do you any suggestions? So we can talk about what happens with aging. Again, insert some knowledge piece and talk about resources and talk about this is really a caregiving crisis that we have right now and give them some options.

I’m not solving problems, but much more connecting them to resources.

Knowing there are some options, that’s probably part of it. And have them more informed. Have them more informed. I mean, it could be something as, I understand that the more faithful you are, the longer you’re gonna live. How does religion play a role in this? So it’s these types of questions.

Some of them are not as bizarre as having two parents that are not able to drive, but the things, how do I talk to my father about not driving? He’s a very independent man and he really refuses to give up the license. common one is can’t find a geriatrician. How do I talk to my doctor? I don’t feel like being listened to. Women say, I feel invisible. I went to the counter at Macy’s.

There was this chick in front of me. I was waiting 20 minutes and she got waited on and not me. You know, what is all this about? Et cetera. Some on technology. How do I make my home safer? Scams, you know, I’ve been scammed by $20,000. This is what happened to me. Can you write something so others do not fall for the same scam? So they’re really everyday issues. sometimes it’s humor.

speaker-1 (14:03.922)
what do you think about birthday cards that depict older people as being senile? Is that ageism or is it humor? good question. So it’s everyday, everyday things that come up and the questions don’t always come via email. Sometimes it’s buying bananas at Trader Joe’s and meeting someone and say, you know, I’m so glad I met you. Let me ask you a question. So sometimes it’s from family.

So one of the differences this has made in me is that I listen more closely to conversations because often embedded then is a question that would be useful to others. And there’s one thing I promised my readers. They’ll never remember this. was 23 years ago. Behind every question is a real person.

And I think that has made this endure because I don’t make them up and they reflect what’s happening today. What, how is it different? More informed. They want information and they want information that’s relevant to them. And when I say hope, I mean options that they’re not stuck.

speaker-0 (15:26.082)
Yeah.

speaker-1 (15:27.744)
It could be my mother doesn’t want to use a walker.

speaker-1 (15:33.902)
What do I do about that? And the columns are about 700 words long.

speaker-0 (15:41.422)
So you’ve mentioned a number of times where somebody sends in a question and it seems to be related to an older parent.

speaker-1 (15:49.676)
Yes, that’s one and the others, that’s one and the others related to themselves. Okay. Or related to their children. I have helicopter children. They don’t let me do anything for fear that I’m going to have an accident.

speaker-0 (16:09.225)
Yeah.

speaker-1 (16:10.766)
So it’s family, it’s work, it’s employment.

It’s pretty broad new.

speaker-0 (16:22.654)
Interesting. The column itself is titled successful aging. Define successful.

speaker-1 (16:28.354)
Yes.

speaker-1 (16:32.184)
You know, if I had to rename the column today, I would name it optimal aging.

because you can argue, and this is now we’re talking 23 years ago, you could argue, well, what’s the opposite of successful aging, unsuccessful aging? What is that? So to me, I have a very broad definition. If you are doing everything that you can in terms of your lifestyle, that means to the best of your ability of exercise, of nutrition, sense of purpose,

social connections. If you are doing everything that you can do in those arenas, if you’re in a wheelchair, if you have a cane, if you have arthritis, to me, that’s successful aging. Now there are other, there’s a book, Successful Aging by John Rowan, Robert Kahn, who have a very good outline of successful aging, which is

avoiding risks of disease, being so physical and intellectual engagement and sense of purpose. So there are more concrete ones, but it doesn’t recognize those who are not in perfect health.

or who have limitations. And I say, if you are doing the best you can with high blood pressure, even with arthritis, okay, to me, you are aging as successfully as you possibly can. So if I had to rename it, I wouldn’t call it successful aging. It’s real optimal aging. It’s being the best you can.

speaker-0 (18:23.616)
Interesting. You mentioned earlier, you were talking about ageism and age discrimination. Is that getting better? The reason why I’m asking this question is part of the reason why I’ve shifted into this podcast. I was in IT, in technology, but I’m 61.

I’ll never forget a specific meeting I had with Amazon AWS about doing some work for them and they decided not to go with me because I wouldn’t fit their culture. And the people I were meeting with were in their late 20s and early 30s. I’ve been around since before there were networks, before there was Windows.

And I remember and understand why things are called the way they are. But because of my age, at least that was my sense, I was going to be accepted into that type of environment. Do you still see it getting better? The same?

speaker-1 (19:35.694)
So I’m just, let’s check, I’m gonna check. Is this light better? Is that a better light?

speaker-0 (19:42.092)
We’re good. I can adjust that.

speaker-1 (19:44.718)
Okay. This is a mixed bag. It is illegal according to the age discrimination employment act to make decisions of employment termination and training based on age. Okay. So we have laws. However, according to AARP two thirds of the employees that they survey have either seen it’s up to 70 % now.

had either seen or experienced age discrimination in the workplace. On the other hand, we have more older adults working, but I don’t know in what roles they’re working. And we now have more older adults with part-time jobs and often because they can’t get full-time jobs. So my answer is yes, ageism is alive and well.

It is often cushioned such as you’re overqualified and you don’t fit into the culture. Those are really weak excuses.

At the same time, there is this push on that multi-generational workforce with all of this evidence that says more creative, more productive, et cetera. So from my perspective, Neil, when you have data that says this is really a good thing and you have Neil who’s rejected,

I’m saying that’s ageism. When data, valid, reliable data makes a certain, has certain evidence and yet the practice does not reflect it. Something else is going on. And to me that’s ageism. I have a very strong feeling about it. We are in a youth culture. Youth is valued over maturity and age.

speaker-1 (21:49.144)
Beauty and a face without lines is valued over a perfect face. Mine is not. I’ve earned every line. So age is alive and well.

Despite the fact we have more older people working, I do not know what roles they’re in.

Are they working in their same jobs? Are they packing groceries at Trader Joe’s? Are they working at Home Depot?

speaker-0 (22:28.354)
That actually begs a question. One of things that, one of my early comments was a gentleman that said everything he’s been seeing has been more related to white collar people retiring, that sort of stuff.

So I’m trying to keep in mind to ask about the blue collar side of things. The blue collar roles where people are retiring and aging out of.

speaker-1 (22:50.84)
about the world.

speaker-1 (22:57.486)
Well, did the look? Go ahead, please.

speaker-0 (22:59.662)
I was just going to ask, do you see differences there? you see how that’s being impacted?

speaker-1 (23:08.194)
Well, many of the blue collar workers, many of them require strength. And we know one of the things that changes with age is losing muscle mass, which means you lose some strength. I don’t know if I would be surprised if the blue collar workers are long are working longer because if they have an opportunity to retire,

Many of them say, I am so glad to get off my feet. I am so glad I don’t have to climb a ladder anymore. Now the plumbing industry, I don’t know. I think to get a good plumber, an older plumber is excellent. So I don’t know in, I know construction workers, there’s a need for construction workers. So this is where it gets confusing. We have a labor shortage.

of skilled workers.

speaker-1 (24:11.938)
And then we have these people who want to work. And you say, well, if you have a supply and a demand, shouldn’t that fit? Well, if it doesn’t fit, then I say, what else is going on? And I do think that the ageism is just there. Robert Butler, who founded the National Institute on Aging, a giant in the field who died a number of years ago, and he coined the term ageism.

He said, every one of us, every one of us hold some aging, ageism, thought, perspective, perception. The best of us makes assumptions about people because of age. Some more so, some less so. So I don’t know if I can, do you want an example?

speaker-0 (25:09.12)
Yeah, sure. Always.

speaker-1 (25:10.658)
I’ll give myself an example. I have a fitness coach twice a week and I ran for 40 years, modest runner. I walk now and jog a little bit. So I said to my coach, said, so what does an 80 year old woman need to run for? He looks at me, he said, why shouldn’t an 80 year old woman run? I said, my God.

Listen to what I just said about me. I said, that’s the most ageist thing. So what I’m saying, the best of us who’ve been in the field, it is so subtle. It is so part of our DNA because of our society. So to answer your question, I don’t know about the blue collar workers. Their retirement is earlier simply because they’re ready to retire.

speaker-1 (26:12.758)
So I’m not sure, but ageism continues. The white collar workers is interesting. The question is, will AI affect the white collar workers, the older workers?

speaker-0 (26:26.368)
AI is going to impact not just older workers, but all workers. I’m already seeing that.

speaker-1 (26:32.172)
Yes, all workers. I know your field is architecture and certainly it impacts design. Anyone who’s advertising architecture, fashion. Yeah.

speaker-0 (26:43.81)
Yeah. I think we could have a whole new conversation on what society itself is going to be looking at.

speaker-1 (26:52.428)
Yeah. And I think I forget who just advanced. Maybe it was Elon Musk envisioning our world without work. That’s another conversation.

speaker-0 (27:04.042)
I’ve talking with people about that for a couple of years now.

speaker-1 (27:07.726)
Yeah, well, you’re head of the curve,

speaker-0 (27:10.446)
I’ve always been, but that’s another. You also, you mentioned the politics of aging. Now, just as an aside, I’m in discussions right now with your US Senate committee on aging to interview them as to what they’re doing and what their views are and that sort of thing. But what have you seen from the politics of aging now?

speaker-1 (27:13.827)
Clearly, clearly.

speaker-0 (27:39.448)
versus 23 years ago when you started your call.

speaker-1 (27:44.866)
I guess my only comment on the politics is that everything is political. There is nothing that, you know, are we looking at, I think this is still a concern. What are the needs? What is the financial implications? But the dialogues are political and antagonistic. rather than commenting on the policies per se,

It’s the environment, the atmosphere, the antagonistic, uncivilized way we are communicating and intimidation and fear. Whatever the topic is, it seems to have a heavy political overtone that’s very unsettling, that loses the whole point of the discussion, if will.

speaker-0 (28:40.918)
The tribalism side of things.

speaker-1 (28:42.85)
Yeah, and I think we talk about met, mean, fright, social security, medical, Medicare. These are lifebloods of older adults. And when you start saying, well, we may just continue. I mean, those with disabilities, I mean, the fear, the fear of having a lifeline cut and the nature of the discourse is different from 20 years ago.

speaker-0 (29:11.21)
One thing I’ve noticed is as I’ve gotten older, little sidebar, when I was, how old was I? 20 years old, I was vice president of the young liberals of BC. Here in Canada, liberal really meant the liberal party as opposed to, but that’s because I’ve always viewed change is a natural part of life as opposed to policies of a liberal party.

But I’ve noticed that as I’ve gotten older, I’ve gotten more conservative. And the reason why I’ve gotten more conservative is because I know what works for me and what hasn’t. So when society starts changing things that I know was working, I don’t like that change, which goes to the small c conservative aspects of life. So I haven’t seen the numbers yet, but I’m just curious as to whether

older adults are shifting to a more conservative mindset as well. And I’ve learned a long time ago, I’m not a unique person. So if I’m thinking something, often others are.

speaker-1 (30:25.486)
think it’s geographic. But I really, I’m not sure. I have heard.

speaker-0 (30:37.166)
Let me be clear. I’m not saying right wing. I’m just saying you maybe you start off on the left wing and you end up in the middle or you start in the middle and you move to the right.

speaker-1 (30:49.846)
I would say moving towards the middle. Yeah. Moving towards the middle. Yeah.

speaker-0 (30:57.294)
That’s interesting. When you and I had our introductory conversation, you said one of the things that you’re really starting to work on now is the women’s side of things.

speaker-1 (31:12.642)
Yes. So that’s another 25 year old story. So in 1999, a colleague calls me, Bernice Browder. I’m at USC at the time. She said she’s retiring from her second executive director position. She says, is there anything about career women

speaker-0 (31:13.496)
Tell me about that.

speaker-1 (31:40.266)
moving into retirement. And this is a very well put together woman. She says, I’m having a hard time. I said, Bernice, we’re not on the radar and nobody cares. She said, could we have lunch to see if there’s something to discuss? I said, great. We had a four hour lunch. She said, why don’t you invite some like-minded women? I’ll do the same. And we’ll see if there’s something here to talk about. That was a four hour dinner around her dining room table.

So we continued to meet once a month to talk about topics that matter. Identity, who am I without my business card? Making the retirement decision. What does productivity mean in this life stage? And we knew we were on to something because we recorded the first five years of our conversation. No intention to expand, duplicate.

And then some women from the West side of Los Angeles calls us and say, you know what, we hear about this interesting group of women. And I should say it was a theater producer, psychologist, public relations person, business woman, multi-discipline, about eight women, very different fields and all successful.

So we said, you know, it’s hard to start in middle of a group. We’ll help you start a group. And then another group called, could we join your group? Well, you know, it’s hard to, we’ll help you start a group. in a period of a few years, about 40 renumin groups spread throughout the country by word of mouth, no marketing. The CEO of Scribner,

read an article. We were very fortunate. We got some press from Time Magazine online and the LA Times. And the head of Scribner read it, found the journalist and called us and said, would you like to write a book about career women in retirement? I looked at Bernice, I said, that’s interesting. Sure, we can do that. So 18 months later, we submit a manuscript to our shock and amazement and made the LA Times bestseller list.

speaker-0 (33:57.646)
Really?

speaker-1 (33:59.278)
That’s shocking amazement. So I say, been very fortunate. Excuse me, I’m cold. So a lot has happened since then. So for 20 years, we met in person. And the groups were pretty independent and they changed their names, which we said, fine. One was a Yaya group, which is Greek for grandmother. Another was the living room group, because they met in a living room.

Another group would call themselves the Labor Day group. The first meeting was on Labor Day. We said, we don’t care what you call it, but we have this book that talks about 38 essays, all topics that we’ve covered. Plus there’s a guide at the end to say how to start a Renewing Group. has a curriculum. It has the whole thing. So that’s the first 20 years. Pandemic hits, people can’t meet.

So I said to me, we have to make up something else. The virtual Renewment Roundtable. Okay. So envision 12 seats and we’ll just let the word out. it got filled. And then there was a waiting list. And we said, okay, we’ll help you start a group. And then there was another waiting list and another waiting list. And so at one point we had about a hundred women from across the country.

participating in once a month, one hour discussions on quote topics that matter. The difference, this group, about 85 % were already retired. So it was a different cohort. The first group were just moving into retirement. This now moving into the next life stage. So we continued that. And then we recently got an article

by AARP online about Renewment. And we said, oh my goodness. I mean, they have a huge circulate people, they reach tens of thousands of people. And we said, oh my, what do we do now if all these people read this article? How are we gonna respond? So we’re moving into something called Renewment 2.0, meaning,

speaker-1 (36:24.834)
We’re going to go for a nonprofit. Bernice and I never wanted to head up a traditional membership organization. Did not want to fundraise. We’ve done all that. But now 25 years later, we said, you know, I think we have to do this. So we’re in the process of becoming a nonprofit. We have a strategic plan to expand. We are engaging more women. So it’s now of organized growth.

This is intentional. Nothing has been intentional up until now. It just happened. Okay. So I could say the book has really been a cornerstone. It was, and I’m watching our time, it was published in 08, the paper back in 2013. And so you can say, well, this is an old book. There are only two things that indicate when it was published. One, some data points on demography.

And the other, because the book has illustrations, there’s one illustration of a woman on a landline, not a cell phone. So if it was contemporary, it would be a cell phone. That’s the only, the issues are the same. The issues are the same.

speaker-0 (37:42.462)
Here’s my thing. Sorry to interrupt. I was just looking at all my guests. Because when you were talking about USC School of Gerontology, I have two guests, but I’m horrible with names. So I wanted to look them up to see who they were. And they’re coming up next week. But of all my guests, I’m coming up on 30 guests now. Only nine of them are men.

The rest are all women, and they’re all experts or in the field of aging or retirement. Why is that? I’ve kind of noticed that trend. maybe it’s me, I’m more comfortable in talking with women. But I find it interesting that there’s a predominance of women in this area.

speaker-1 (38:38.942)
So, for example, the two people that you’re going to interview, are they involved with the hard science?

speaker-0 (38:47.63)
Yeah. One is Dr. Susan and I’m going to butcher her name. I wrote it down phonetically. It’s Dr. NGD, NGD nos. The other one is Dr. Donna Benton.

speaker-1 (39:03.938)
I know Donna very well. I don’t have an explanation for it.

speaker-0 (39:05.72)
So.

speaker-0 (39:11.562)
It’s, it’s an interesting, it’s something I’m going to keep my eye on. think there’s part of it has to do just with the nature of being feminine versus masculine. think being feminine versus masculine. For example, there’s more women in the healthcare certain areas versus in the tech, the STEM STEM areas and that sort of thing. Both are changing.

speaker-1 (39:23.842)
Have been.

speaker-0 (39:38.734)
I’m just wondering whether that’s just a natural part of the way we are.

speaker-1 (39:45.774)
It’s a very good point. I really don’t have an excellent. The other thing is aging is a hard sell.

meaning.

There’s a shortage of geriatricians. They’re like seven and a half thousand board certified geriatricians in the United States.

speaker-1 (40:16.056)
There are a lot of reasons they get paid less. They can’t make people totally well. They deal with chronic conditions.

But there is a mental block.

about aging, it’s less so now. Aging ultimately talks about mortality. Aging ultimately is a declining process, but people also do get improved with age. It’s why people don’t want to make out a will to stay planning, planning for the future.

And let’s take the business sector. It’s taken decades for them to be aware that there are this thing called older consumers who have the money.

Again, aging is a hard sell. I think it’s less so today because we have aging boomers. have the field has expanded exponentially. Aging in some cases is cool. It’s there is always an age related item in the news.

speaker-0 (41:44.174)
It’s funny, before I started this podcast, the research I did showed that people 55 and up have 70 % of the wealth in the countries. Yes.

speaker-1 (41:59.542)
So they’re a powerful group. contribute, according to AARP, $8 trillion to the GDP, directly and indirectly. So when people say they’re robbing me of my social security, wait, look at what they’re doing as consumers. They’re huge consumers, but you have to talk to them in a way that makes sense.

speaker-0 (42:26.786)
The other aspect, another thing that I’ve noticed with from the women’s side of things. A couple of interviews ago, I interviewed Kelsey Nodler Perry from Road Scholar. And she says 70 % of the people making use of their services are women, not men. And they don’t know why. And they’re trying to understand why so they can bring more men into that. But again, that’s part of that.

speaker-1 (42:55.106)
think it’s the block against aging. Rhodes Scholar used to be called Elder Hostel, smart, they changed the name, but it is for older adults. And I’m not older. I’m not invisible, I count. So this notion of being older in American society,

speaker-0 (43:01.57)
Elder Hostel.

speaker-1 (43:23.074)
has some challenges, not only from health and work, but perception. How you are perceived. Are you willing to tell your age?

in the workplace.

So I mean, the ageism underlies so many things that we may not realize the sagesm.

speaker-0 (43:52.076)
why I always say my wife is at her birthday she’s just turned 27.

speaker-1 (43:56.928)
Absolutely. How many times?

speaker-0 (43:59.31)
Exactly.

Me personally, I still think of myself as in my forties. In fact, I get people when I ask them if they can guess how old I am, they do say in my forties. So I think there’s part of aging well, successful, optimal aging is also having that purpose side of things and having that focus.

speaker-1 (44:25.164)
Yeah. And we generally do not know what to do with this extraordinary human resource called older adults. So we have programs here and there, but in general, we’re always kind of a one-off. And yes, we have this older adult group. we really don’t know what to do with them. So I mean, I feel, and I’m watching your time.

speaker-0 (44:49.346)
with us.

speaker-1 (44:54.766)
I feel very fortunate. I have to say I have celebrated in my 85th birthday and I am grateful that I’ve reached this mark in a healthy way. And I’m grateful that people continue to want to hear from me, that I have these interesting opportunities because I have contemporaries that don’t have it.

Let me add another piece. I think we older adults also have a responsibility. Yeah, we, it’s easy to say I’m a victim, but we have a responsibility. If you’re in the workplace, you’ve to be up to date. You have to know something about technology. And if you’re not in the workplace to be an interesting person. So people want to have you for dinner.

So I think we have a responsibility to be the best we can be.

So it’s not only society we have a role to play.

speaker-0 (46:01.496)
So we’re coming up on the end of the interview, Helen. The one question I ask everybody.

is if you had one piece of advice to give to people going into retirement, older people, what would that one piece of advice be?

speaker-1 (46:27.278)
There are so many cases. there are a number, but I think.

I think one of the most important things is your physical activity. We know it slows the aging process. We know it’s good for you. There’s the sense of purpose and the sense of connection, all of that. But if there’s one thing that can help us be optimal is some of that physical activity. A sedentary life is not good.

is not good. It’s not good intellectually. It’s not good. It’s not good socially. would say physical engagement and activity. That’s one. And the other is engagement. So that’s when I say we have responsibility. So I’m not an exercise nut, but I do know that physical activity can slow many of the aging processes.

and particularly when it comes to strength. We lose muscle mass, we lose strength, we lose our balance. So I guess there’s so many, but that’s one that’s really important to be optimal.

speaker-0 (47:49.964)
Yeah, absolutely. In fact, you know, you’re triggering something that I’ve seen a number of videos of people focused on exercise for people that are 60 and up type thing. I’m going to see whether I can find somebody to talk with.

speaker-1 (48:05.004)
Yeah. And also the physiological consequences, blood pressure and all kinds of things. the other thing, just to keep in mind, to finding your sense of purpose, the reason to get up in the morning. So I’d be interested to have you catalog all those pieces of advice.

speaker-0 (48:35.222)
I think it would be, it’s going to be very interesting. Anyway, Helen, thank you very much for taking the time. I much appreciate it.

speaker-1 (48:44.11)
Thank you. It’s been my pleasure. I’ve enjoyed our conversation.

speaker-0 (48:48.138)
And to everybody watching this, I will put information about how you can find Helen and her column and her book and all that sort of information in the description for this video. then.

speaker-1 (49:01.728)
And I should add, we welcome new, renewment women. Thank you, Neil.

speaker-0 (49:05.24)
Perfect. Thanks, Helen. Much appreciated.

speaker-1 (49:09.378)
Right, bye now.