Why He Walked Away from Retirement to Start PulpWorks

Neil Rerup (00:00.11)
It’s been a a remarkable journey. it came at the end of a of a traditional career in corporate America. and it’s been an absolute blessing in my life. I mean, it’s just made every day exciting and challenging and you know I can’t I can’t say enough about the direction that it’s taken me in. So

I’m I’m a huge advocate for late blooming entrepreneurs. and as I said in my in my TED talk, older entrepreneurs have a 70% success rate launching new businesses.

Neil Rerup (00:56.194)
Welcome back. One of the pillars that Transition Network does is retirement and entrepreneurship. And to that end, we are providing you an interview with Paul Tasner. Now, Paul is the founder and president of PulpWorks, a sustainable packaging company replacing toxic single-use plastic packaging with molded pulp solutions from 100% agricultural or paper waste that is compostable, recyclable.

biodegradable and plastic free. Paul is well known for having done a TED talk titled How I Became an Entrepreneur at 66. That’s right, 66. so he fits in perfectly into that transitioning into the retirement side of things and he is going to talk about how he went from his career into founding Pulp Works.

and the lessons that he’s learned going forward. So stay tuned, watch this interview, and don’t forget to click subscribe so that the algorithms bring you your information when you need it in a timely manner. Thanks and enjoy the interview.

Well thanks Paul for joining us. before we get started, why don’t you tell a bit about yourself and what you’ve been doing and how you got here. Sure, my pleasure, Neil. well I I I think what as as I recall from our earlier conversations, what what

attracted you to to getting in touch with me was my my TED talk in twenty seventeen. and it pleased to say that it it reached a a number of people, an embarrassingly high number of people that I’m I’m absolutely delighted about. And it covered

Neil Rerup (03:12.63)
It covered the areas of entrepreneurship, the environment, and ageism and all of those all of those issues near and dear to me. as I’ve been exploring my own entrepreneurial venture since since twenty eleven. So it’s been going we’re we’re in our fifteenth year now.

And and it’s been a a remarkable journey. it came at the end of a of a traditional career in corporate America. and it’s been an absolute blessing in my life. I mean it’s just made every day exciting and challenging and you know I can’t

can’t say enough about the direction that it’s taken me in. So I’m I’m a huge advocate for late blooming entrepreneurs. and as I said in my in my TED talk, older entrepreneurs have a 70% success rate launching new businesses. And that’s those are incredible odds. And so

I can’t see any reason why there aren’t more of us out there getting the recognition that they deserve. So completely agree. you started up pulpworks. So let’s give a bit of a blurb on what pulpworks is and when you started it and go from there. I I had a I had a long, decades long, forty years or more career in consumer

packaging and manufacturing, consumer goods manufacturing and packaging. And in the latter part of that corporate career, I became more involved in what what one might call sustainable packaging, packaging that wasn’t a a toxic addition to our already troubled environment. And so when I when I left that career

Neil Rerup (05:33.607)
and embarked on something entrepreneurial, I chose to continue down that path of sus sustainable packaging. And the area that I work in is is called molded fiber or molded pulp packaging. folks are familiar with it from the egg carton in their refrigerator. That’s a that’s an example of molded pulp packaging. It’s not the sexiest example, but it’s been around for decades and it i it does represent that the

the earlier technology in this field. And our work, our work builds on that. It’s a little more sophisticated and it’s aimed at more for a more premium look for higher priced items. And so we we tend to compare our packaging to what you buy to what you might see from Apple, for instance. If you buy an Apple product, particularly an Apple iPhone.

You open that package when you get it home and you see your iPhone sitting there in a a little white cradle. that white cradle is molded fiber packaging. Today it is. It didn’t always it wasn’t always that way, but it today it is. It’s molded fiber packaging, probably from sugar cane waste. And that’s the medium that we work in. So I haven’t

I have more fun comparing our packaging to Apple packaging than I do to egg cartons, clearly. So that’s that’s the impression I’d like to leave our viewers with. So when did you start PubWorks? And two th 2011. 2011. So it’s been a fourteen, fifteen year journey so far. Correct. How much time from when you left corporates America?

to when you started pulp works when to come two years. And what was that journey like? and what caused what was it a just a normal retirement or were you not ready for retirement and something happened to move you out of corporate America? I absolutely some I was not ready for retirement. something happened. I was fired along with several other folks. It was the end of the economic

Neil Rerup (07:58.647)
This was early, this was 2009, so the country was still suffering the effects of the recession. company I worked for struggled during during that period of time. the board of directors saw fit to let the CEO go as the captain of the ship.

That was demoralizing to many of us, including me. He was an amazing individual and really cared a great deal for him. he was responsible for bringing me on board at that company. And they followed that up with the appointment of a gentleman that I didn’t have a lot of respect for. So

I wasn’t very good at masking my feelings and found myself on the chopping block shortly thereafter along with some other folks. Company is has since recovered from the trials of the recession and has been, you know, bought out by a much larger entity and that you know, they’re they’re still around today and doing well, I I trust.

But I spent the next couple of years doing consulting work. I had a wonderful and large network and I’d been in the business for over forty years. So I I lean I leaned on my consulting background and was able to generate income that way, but all the time looking for something to really pour myself into. I didn’t want to spend the last years of my career doing

doing consulting work. I just I just didn’t want to do it. It did I wanted to do something special. I fig I I I felt as if I had I know this sounds a a bit maudlin, I guess if that’s the right word. I I I wanted I I had one more shot, I thought, at doing something special. And I didn’t I didn’t want to waste that shot. sounds like a line from the Hamilton play, but

Neil Rerup (10:11.554)
I didn’t. I really wanted it to count. And so I I took two years to land on something and and when I landed on it, it felt really good. It felt right. And that’s the area that I pursued. So so let’s let’s explore that how you landed here. Yeah. because there’s other people that are gonna want to figure out where to go themselves. Right. How did you figure out where to land with into pulp works? Well

I I chose an area that I I had already had some exposure to as a as a corporate person. It wasn’t it wasn’t an unknown area to me. I chose an area that I had some exposure to. I chose an area where I knew there were people there were people that I knew who were working in that area, either as you know, entrepreneurs or managers. so it was

hardly unknown to me. And and I felt like it was the next the next big thing in sustainable packaging. and I don’t think I was wrong. I just didn’t estimate the ramp that it would take to get there. Was pretty I’m I I moved into this area pretty early. Pretty early. And probably too early, but that’s all

hindsight now. but I or I I guess I

I was moving into an area of work that I was already familiar with and that that that was a big deal for me because I I didn’t feel like I had to learn violin making, you know, from scratch. I I was I was working in my chosen field. It was just a a bit of a corollary to that. I I I I greatly admire folks who give up a career in accounting to make violins. I mean

Neil Rerup (12:17.768)
I can’t imagine the ch you know the change that one has to go through in order but I I didn’t have that challenge. I was moving into an area where I had expertise, or at least I had some experience. That that that that gave me a feeling of confidence, I guess. So I would suggest that for example, the violin makers. A friend of mine is he’s

probably a year or two older than myself. We’re both, you know, right on that edge of retirement type thing. But he’s had a hobby for years making guitars. Uh-huh. And he sells them like one at a time for very well known musicians and artists. so I kept suggesting to him, you know, why don’t you start transitioning to into that since you love making them so much. Yeah. His thing was it’s a hobby.

He didn’t want to turn that into a business. Yeah. Because then he’d lose that that love. But I he would do something well in something he already knows, just like what you’ve done is kept with something that you already know. So it sounds like that that’s a trick there. yes, and I I mean, far be it from me to you know tell him how he should feel, but I you know

Turning it from a hobby into a business isn’t necessarily going to turn it sour. He still loves guitar making. you know, and he’ll love profiting from guitar making it sounds like he’s already got a business if he sells them to well-known musicians. He’s just not he’s just not doing it at scale. exactly. And y you know, I I’m doing pretty much what I used to do. It may be a different format, you know.

pulp versus plastic or something. But I’m doing pretty much what I’ve been doing all my life. But I’m doing it for myself now. I’m not doing it for the man. I’m doing it for me. And that’s all the difference in the world. It makes all the difference in the world. Even the most tedious parts of my business. And believe me, there are lots of parts of you know any running any business that are quite tedious. They’re detailed and they’re boring.

Neil Rerup (14:40.163)
They’re not that boring to me because it’s my business. Yeah. Yeah. if you don’t mind my asking, and feel free not to tell me the exact number, maybe a range. Roughly how old were you when you started PulpWorks? I w no, I’m not I’m proud of it. I I I was sixty-four when I left my corporate job. I spent two years bouncing around in the corporate, you know, in the consulting world. Right.

And so I was 66 when I started Pulp Works. So yes, I’m I passed my 80th birthday last year. Really? So do the math. Don’t you really don’t look like you’re out of your sixties yet. wow. There you go. Nice compliment to you. You just became my new best friend. So thank you. There you go. okay, so you started up pulp works.

Tell me about that first year. What were some of the roadblocks you were running into? There’s going to be your typical starting up of a business, but which roadblocks were tied to the ageism aspect of things? Sure. the original intent of the business for for my original intent was a brick and mortar business. I wanted to raise money.

To construct a facility where we could manufacture, cust custom manufacture for for our clients molded fiber products, premium molded fiber packaging for all manner of companies. Apple, you name it. I needed to raise money to do that. Not you know, not an enormous amount by

you know, VC y you know, in the world of VC r money raises, it wasn’t an enormous amount, but it was certainly more than I had. that’s where I met with ageism. I had a I had a partner at the time and we spent that probably that whole first year going from investor meeting to investor meeting. So I mean I do take some

Neil Rerup (16:59.768)
Very little, but some comfort from the fact that investors wanted to talk to us. So we made the cut. The you know, the the fifty resumes or the fifty bitch decks that they see every month and they invite three people to come in and talk to them at their monthly meeting. We we were among those three people. So there’s there’s some something flattering about that. But we never we never got past that. We never made it to that.

that one that they’re going to invest in. and and I understood that. Not not because of my age. I I I do I do fault them for that. But you know I this I was based in the San Francisco Bay Area at the time. investors have, you know, any number of IT ventures to invest in, you know, w wherever they turn.

So given the opportunity to make their investment in the next Google or Facebook, why would they invest in a company that turns garbage into packaging? You know, it’s just they have a lot better bigger and better opportunities than that. so I get why we were, you know, the one that they were they’re gonna write a check to. But I didn’t know that. I mean, I’d never gone down this path before. I had to learn that.

And it it took a year before I would I let it of course I thought it was the best venture imaginable. How could they not invest in what we were doing? It was your baby. Yeah, yeah. of course it you know, from their perspective, it wasn’t the best. And it took a year before I finally woke up to the fact that that, you know, we’re not gonna raise that money. We need to we need to change our model here. I I still like the idea of what we were out to do.

But we needed to change our model. We needed to find partners who would do the manufacturing for us. Okay. And and I’d labored in that area of business my whole career. And I knew some partners who would do this, or I thought would do this for us. And that was challenging. most of the companies we talked to were interested, but not until we had larger volumes to to

Neil Rerup (19:25.08)
share with them. But I did find I did find a handful that would that would work with us as we were growing. and an early partner of ours, and still my partner to this day, said something that I, you know, I’ll I’ll I’ll never stop repeating because I thought it was so remarkable is that he knew it was going to be tough for me going early going. And he

He could wait to be paid until I collected my my fees. So he front he in essence fronted you terms. Yeah. Yeah. So he he’s got my loyalty for as long as he has a business and as long as he wants it. that that that was just remarkable. So so instead of I I’m making the assumption that you wanted the money for

purchasing the equipment so you could do it. So you changed your model from that to making use of subcontractors, for lack of a better term. Correct. That’s exactly what we did. And and we didn’t need the same amount of capital now to run our business. we didn’t have we didn’t have to pay ourselves a salary until we could afford to. I mean any any money we were able to use would be marketing expenses, trade shows, thing you know, l low cost low cost items that we had.

control over. and so little by little, you know, we engage a new customer and, you know, turn a bit of a profit. And little by little, we got to the point where we could pay before we collected our money with our partners. Okay. And how big is Polk now? in in what terms? revenue, number of employees.

Well the revenues I prefer to keep under private if that’s okay. That’s fine. And number of employees, right now, all of our all of our employees are save for one, my son, who is who’s my colleague and my partner now. all all of our other key employees are folks that we use as needed. they’re either pa paid per diem or paid per project.

Neil Rerup (21:48.912)
But we don’t have any other roles that require a full time employee. That those roles are fulfilled by myself and and my son who joined me, you know, in recent years. So accounting, legal, design, all all of that is as as needed. and and we have folks that we turn to on a regular basis for that support.

So it’s interesting because in 2015, I’m coming out of the IT industry myself. In 2015, I started seeing a transition with enterprises. And that’s I’ve basically been focused on enterprise class organizations, you know, 3,000 people and up, typically 10,000, 15,000 person organizations. Right. And I saw p these organizations starting to outsource.

various different components of the business so that they were just focusing on their core business. Right. And what what ended up happening is you’d see accounting outsourced, legal outsourced, accounts payable, IT, all these various different departments that were not part of the core business outsourced. And as a result, it looks like they were

downsizing, but they weren’t. They were getting more efficient because they were making use of specialty firms focused on just one area of of business. Right. And and it sounds like you created Hopeworks from scratch using that model of a core making use of subcontracted businesses, if that makes sense. It is. You’re you’re

Precisely correct. That’s the area of manufacturing that I’ve labored in my entire career, outsourcing. I’ve worked for many larger companies during my career, and smaller ones, and but the one thing that’s been constant throughout my career is that I’ve been responsible for the outsourcing that that company does. Some companies outsource everything. And I by outsourcing I mean here specifically.

Neil Rerup (24:11.48)
manufacturing. Some companies outsource everything, you know, there are still some companies that outsource nothing, which is kind of a tricky thing to do. But I’ve always worked for companies that outsourced a portion of their product line. Usually the ones the items that they had less expertise in were outsourced to people who had more expertise. Mm-hmm. And also to come but you’re outsourcing

The cost centers as opposed to the revenue generators. Correct. Right. Right. Correct. So you you are still doing the sales, finding your customers, signing the agreements, and then triggering the entire manufacturing process and any of the ends, what I call supporting services, you make use of when you need. Correct. Interesting. The things that the things that we become involved in intimately firsthand are

anything related to the manufacturing and and also the logistics of the of the of the completed work et cetera that we we we hold on to that first hand and you know act somewhat like the customer’s manufacturing department good good okay that’s so that’s less work that they have to do in that area so you were able to get going without spending a whole lot of money

In essence, your sales would pay for the startup. Would that be fair? Yeah. Okay. And I I say that simply because anybody out there that’s looking at starting up but worried about risking their retirement funds, you don’t necessarily have to spend those retirement funds to start up that small business to move forward. Correct. Okay. Right. Now, here’s the question. You’re sixty-seven.

I’m I’m saying that because that’s what you look. How’s your energy level now? good, good. I mean there’s there’s there’s I mean there’s things I can’t do as well anymore. I mean I’m eighty years old. I can I really can’t I can’t play basketball. Well I yeah

Neil Rerup (26:36.44)
I I think I know my limits, it etcetera, but my my energy is derived from my enthusiasm for the business. I I I I often tell the or or I often provide the analogy. w when I worked in the corporate world, I can remember you know the

distaste I had when opening my computer in the morning and seeing you know 60 emails and you know half of them were nonsensical and half of the others were asking you to attend a meeting that you didn’t want to go to. I’m I’m exaggerating to make a point, but yeah I I I used to loathe opening up my computer and and seeing that list of emails because I I knew there was nothing

Very little that was going to get me excited. now I can’t wait to open my computer in the morning to see what I’ve got. I still get, you know, s you know, thirty pieces of junk mail, but but but I get I get interesting messages too. I get potential inquiries about business. I I literally can’t wait to look online in the morning and see what what the new day has brought. and that’s a

That’s a great feeling to have every day. Here I am 15 years into my business, and I still feel like that every morning. I’m a firm I’m a firm believer that you’re it’s it’s not the body that getting allows you to age, it’s your mind. Right. And going as far as you want, as long as your mind is active, I think you could live as long as you want. I look at my dad, he’s

ninety-five this year. Wow. Wonderful. when he was he was forced into retirement at 61, he did similar to you for the few s first few years. He tried doing consulting. he was in the education system. But then his hobby was genealogy, family trees, that sort of stuff. Right, right. And he started doing that for everybody. Now he didn’t charge because the

Neil Rerup (29:01.594)
People come, hey, I understand you’ve done our your family tree. Like he’s got us back to like nine hundred AD. like over a thousand years, our family tree. But he started doing that for everybody around us. And it it just drove him to keep doing that and kept his mind active. And he’s now, like I said, ninety five. Fantastic. So I

I suspect that’s you’re going to age very well as well because of the keeping the mind active. I I I I hope so. I I believe that that’s I believe that’s a possibility. I was really pleased to learn af after after my TED talk, I I I initially, I mean as soon as my my talk landed on the on the TED website, they

I think Ted reaches like twenty four million viewers, subscribers. So I mean you know, you could talk about building a paper mache igloo and probably get five million views on Ted because they just have so many subscribers. I got beautiful messages from everyone that reached out to me, whether it was email or through or through the company website or

However they reached out, I mean they’re just heartwarming messages. and they were mostly mostly from individuals and but occasionally there was a you know a kind of a different type of message. And one was one was from a life insurance company in the Netherlands. I’m trying to think of their name. They’re they’re worldwide life insurance company.

In the US they’re known by Trans America, just like the Pyr like the Pyramid in San Francisco. I think it’s Eon or Aeon or something. They’re they’re they’re they’re in Amsterdam, I think. They reached out because and their message to me was

Neil Rerup (31:11.82)
Unbeknownst to you, because you you know you were focused on your business, but unbeknownst to you, you have done the the very best thing you possibly can for your for your longevity. Of course they’re interesting. Their their business is longevity. they like you to live a long life because then they they don’t need to pay they don’t need to pay death benefits until you die. So longevity is their middle name. And they said, you know, what you’re doing

you’re you’re doing wonders for your longevity because you’re you’re just using your you’re using your mind to create new things, to to be engaged every day in a healthy way. That’s that’s so much better than anything else you could be doing. And you know, I said sort of tongue in cheek, you know, better than playing golf five days a week. And they said, yeah.

Absolutely. I mean, that’s great for cardio. You know, walking a golf course is great cardio exercise, but it it doesn’t do that much for your mind really. Yeah. You how many how many hours a a day do you work? well, far less today than than or in the early days. I mean, because it all of our systems and you know, we’ve sort of got it down to a a science now. But

I I mean it it depends on the the the crisis of the day or the opportunity of the day. So some sometimes it’s a full day. But but those are actually rare, to be honest. It’s, you know, probably

Between one and four hours, maybe. Interesting. Yeah. Interesting. Keeps you busy. Has you gives you your income? Yes. Gives you a sense of pride that you’ve created something and you’re growing something. And with my son joining me in the business, it there’s a there’s a sense of succession and his enthusiasm for it and you know, he he he’s got other options too, but

Neil Rerup (33:22.584)
But this is where he wants to stake his claim for the time being. And that that’s very heartwarming and flattering to me that he wants to do that. You know, he’s the best colleague I’ve ever had. So w what’s nothing wrong with that picture at all. So one of the other pillars, like this pillar goes to retirement, that this conversation is goes to retirement as and entrepreneurship.

We have a separate pillar that talks with regards to couples and family dynamics, how that changes. Yes. You’ve just touched on you and your son working together, that pillar. So how does how has that family dynamic changed or has it?

Well, I mean well there’s a big change in him joining me as a colleague, as opposed to being just my son, which is you know so or ordinarily it’s more than enough for most people, but but now he’s a colleague. So that that’s that’s that’s the change.

But has it changed has it changed anything else about our dynamic? well it’s first of all, I get to see a different side of him now. I get to see him thinking and operating as you know an entrepreneurial business person in a you know a technical field. and I get to appreciate, you know, his

Neil Rerup (35:07.768)
his intellect and his creativity that he, you know, didn’t always have a chance to exhibit to me be you know, it being only my son. I mean I’d have to I’d get you know, I’d get anecdotal glimpses of it, you know, through his you know, his work at at school or in another job or something like that. But now I get to exhibit I get to

first hand view of of that side of him or those sides of him that I didn’t have before. And so I have a a renewed appreciation for him and a respect and admiration for him. And as I see him demonstrate this kind of intellect and creativity. he’s he’s very good at at what what he’s doing. He’s very good. He he was a quick study and

I remember being a little concerned at first that how long is this gonna take before he is kind of up to speed and you know whatever number I had in mind, he cut that in half. And it’s it’s been marvelous. Interesting. Interesting. No, I I think so I think I mentioned it earlier. I’m sixty one. Right. My k my kids are in their mid twenties.

They st they’re still in that I probably know more than dad phase. it’s and that that I know that changes. but because I have younger I have younger I have sibling kids in their twenties that I have to keep an eye on and make sure they’re they’re going fine. And I have an older father I have to keep an eye on and help. There’s that sandwich.

mentality that I have going on all the time as well. Right. Right.

Neil Rerup (37:11.936)
I is there any of that that’s going on? Trying to keep an eye him to make sure he’s comfortable and that sort of thing, from a father son perspective as opposed to a boss employee point of view? well, you know, no sandwich. I mean, my my folks are long since passed. but

You know, I I it’s a it’s a wonderful question. I I think of course I I still have I still have those concerns as as a as a dad. not just as a you know, employer or colleague, but as a dad. And I guess I’ve I’ve satisfied myself for the time being in that

the success of the business will will ensure his own success you know, as he go go goes through those years. And if for you know, some calamitous reason there isn’t that success or that long term success that I hope for, you know, he’s certainly a young enough man to make the pivot and

and move in another direction to satisfy his you know, his financial needs, whether it’s entrepreneurial or or, you know, you know, s signing on with a a an entity of some sort. I mean, he’ll he’ll bring wonderful experience to wherever he goes. I I just hope I hope he has reason to stay, of course. That’s yeah.

Well, let’s let’s finish off this interview with a simple question. If you were to talk to your younger self when you were 66, what advice would you give yourself now? that’s a good question. And I think I touched I touch I touched on this a little earlier, but you’re giving me the benefit of hindsight now. You know, looking back, this business.

Neil Rerup (39:33.404)
struggled and still struggles. I mean we have some we have some regulatory winds at our back now that that will compel companies to give our our approach to packaging a closer look because they’re going to be penalized for using disposable single use plastic packaging. In seven states, I believe now there are laws or there will be laws in seven states that will penalize companies for using

disposable single-use plastic, as there are in all Canadian provinces and most of Western and Central Europe. I don’t know that we’ll ever have all 50 states signing on, but but I’m sure it’ll it’ll increase. And this is a new development. Until that, it was really tough persuading people to change packaging for something healthier, more sustainable.

Because if it had any kind of premium price associated, whether it was a tenth of a penny or five pennies, they could not justify making the switch. Now they can justify it. And if you can justify it in hard economic terms because of these penalties that they’re going to be facing. I didn’t have that benefit earlier on. In fact, I didn’t have that benefit until last year. So

My advice to my earlier person would have been, you’re way too early in this game to compete successfully. It’s gonna be a long, hard struggle. I you know, I might have done it anyway, because I was so passionate about it, but hopefully I would have looked long and hard at it before I made the decision to go forward. But I didn’t know how long and hard the the trudge was gonna be.

and I was naive enough or passionate enough or both to think that the idea itself was compelling to companies that of course they’d get rid of their toxic plastic for this wonderful sustainable material. Not true, not true at all. and it’s still not true today. I mean, my heart sinks when I find out that our next

Neil Rerup (41:58.52)
visit is with the purchasing agent because they typically are not interested in looking at anything that doesn’t make them shine to upper management. So yeah it’s it it’s it’s it’s it’s a tough area to be in if you can’t compete really head to head on price. And we’re close, but Plastics had a 50 year head start on us. Right. So

I’m hearing two things. One, it’s not gonna happen as quick as you think. So to keep to keep so keep pushing at it and it will happen, just not it’s not gonna happen in two or three days. Right. and the second that I’m hearing is look for the places where change is occurring because the change will give you the opportunity.

Well said. Well said. Yeah. And and be honest with yourself. Yeah. You know, as passionate as you might be about what you’re what you’ve got in mind, be really honest with yourself. Right. Right. Maybe maybe put it off for a year or two or whatever, but but be honest with yourself. Right. Well, Paul, I want to thank you very much for your time with this.

The link to Pulpworks will be down below, as well as I guess to LinkedIn. Would that be appropriate for people contacting you as well? Sure. I’m personally listed on LinkedIn, as is Pulpworks as a business. And of course, our I mean our our preference would be for people to visit our website and see what we do and yeah, they can reach us through that and that’s

Polporksinc.com. Okay. So and I appreciate your promoting us that way, of course. Naturally. naturally. I’ll also put the link to your TED talk down below in case somebody wants to go back and take a look at that. Excellent. yeah, I appreciate that. and

Neil Rerup (44:18.158)
Thank you. you for your interest in in this and for what you’re doing to highlight what us older entrepreneurs are trying to accomplish. I think there’s a lot of need for these type of conversations. There too much focuses on the 20 year old and 30 year old, not enough on the greatest generations, so to speak. I I received a message today from an an IT

A fellow from Mexico City who’s doing exactly that today. He wants to create a a forum for older entrepreneurs. And he was just reaching out with a few questions, but talking about exactly what you and I have been talking about. So yeah. it’s happening everywhere. Yeah. I think because the entire population is aging. Yeah. I think this is a very pertinent conversation for everybody. So it is. It is indeed. Thank you, sir. Well.

Thank you very much, Paul. I much appreciate it. You’re welcome. Take care. Bye bye.